khufc
Registered: 24/11/08
Posts: 28
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| #1 |
It's all well and good that the first division have got 3 officials in every game, but how does that help the other three divisions?
Something needs to be done to stop the blatant cheating in some games, don't get me wrong some teams have very good linesmen and are very fair but some have complete cheats, meaning players becoming frustrated, with tempers threatening to boil over.
Maybe when the handbooks are given out at the start of the season a copy of the rules of the game we all love should be included too.
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Corki
Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 30
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| #2 |
Fair comment Ben, although in theory 3 linesmen sounds like a good idea some clubs may struggle with the costs each game which puts a downside to it. I feel ref's should give clear instructions before the game as to what they expect(which many do) and at half time actively talk to the linesmen to raise any issues. It may even slow the game down but if a ref feels that certain calls are poor by a lino why not ask what the lino has seen and to explain why they have made that call.
Perhaps even an idea is for each club to have a nominated lino for the season for their club so they get used to running the line and rules of the game, rather than handing the flag to a reclunctant sub.
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jeff
Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 5
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| #3 |
I was a qualified referee for a long time and I often run the line for a team, the amount of stick I get from players is unbelievable. I just laugh it off. You'll be surprised how many players don't know the laws of the game. |
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MickButcher
Moderator
Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 28
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| #4 |
Hi Ben
I think "cheat" is a very strong word. I would like to think that people would not go out of their way to actively cheat when running the line.
The more likely scenario is that the person running the line is doing so very reluctantly and doesnt have a total grasp on the offside laws and is not really interested and would rather be on the pitch. Even for a qualified official running the line is not the easiest thing as you are often dealing with a small margin between onside and offside, active and inactive, 1st phase and 2nd phase etc etc.
As a referee you make honest decisions on what you see and for a club lino with no training just a quick chat with the referee prior to kick off will not furnish them with enough knowledge to run the line as if they were qualified.
It is very easy for the person running the line to become involved in watching the game and in the split second when the ball is played forward and the lino is watching the game rather than the line and a striker is running through he could look up hear the shouts of his players for offside and think "oh ****" that must have been offside and raise the flag only to then get a torrent of abuse from the opposition who believed it to be onside.
As a referee you have to watch the early part of the game carefully and can often tell the "good" club linos as opposed to the not quite so "good" ones thus helping you with positioning and knowing where you need to be at crucial times. Yesterday i had to ask a team to replace their lino for no other reason except that he was clearly not interested and rooted to the spot on the touchline not keeping or attempting to keep up with play.
I think Corki had a great idea with clubs having their own "lino" for the season although understand how difficult that would be. After all who would want to go out with a flag everyweek and get abused? lol
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LeagueSecretary
Moderator
Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 121
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| #5 |
I have read with interest the posts that have been made and the underlying theme that comes out of it all is that if we had independent Officials on all games this is the way to go, so I feel that our forward thinking is in line with the way Clubs are thinking. Although we all understand the practicalities of this.
I agree with your comment Ben on everyone reviewing their own knowledge of the rules, this has come more to my attention over the last couple of weeks speaking to recent ex players that are taking the Referee Course that have admitted they were not aware of certain rules that they once argued!!
On Corki's point of expense to the Clubs I personally do not feel that an extra £1 to £1.50 per player is of any great expense, especially in light that we have kept the prices of pitches to a minimum and worked with the Council to keep the prices low, and with the work encouraging sponsors this also helps to reduce fees for our Clubs. I feel this would outway the problems with Independent Officials.
However this is a little way off at the present time so the idea of having Club Officials is one that I greatly advocate, and is something I encouraged when I was running a Club and feel that this would be beneficial.
I will see if it is feasible to run a small linesman course that Clubs will have to send along Representatives or else there is no point!!, to try to reduce these problems.
What do you the Clubs feel about this?? Feedback please!!
I must say that although at certain times this issue will cause concerns the majority of our Clubs who supply linesman are extemely fair and do an excellent job.
Mark 
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Corki
Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 30
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| #6 |
Some sort of short course for linos would be a great idea, it can only help all clubs in the long run if there are independent linos in the league that are aware of certain laws of the game. |
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khufc
Registered: 24/11/08
Posts: 28
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| #7 |
Thanks for all your comments, I think the comment Corki made is brilliant and if the SSL can make it happen as per Mark's idea in a training course it will make the game a whole lot better, and maybe even encourage more referees to come back to the SSL |
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PhilG
Registered: 02/07/09
Posts: 11
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| #8 |
I believe the course idea would be a good one, but if i was to be a little negative about it i would say, this would most probably only benefit the teams is the lower leagues that have honest linesman become better and gain more understanding.
if we was to look at the comment of blatant cheating would this course stop that the realistic answer is NO, becuase anyone who plays football knows at least the basic concept of the offside rule forgetting the few grey areas that even the Pro's get wrong. Even going on this course they would still come sunday get it wrong!!!!
unfortunately i have been on the sidelines this year already and seen other teams linesman's arms go up for offside constantly like they have springs under them, but fortunately with that said i have also seen referee's being mentally strong enough, far enough up with play and frankly good enough to over rule the decisions.
I think to be honest this is were the best option lies is to hope that on any given sunday if a referee can see that perhaps the linesman isnt the best frankly they just start to ignore them and let the game play on, and make the call of whether its onside or offside themselves and we accept any decision they make.
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Clarkey
Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 35
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| #9 |
I feel that the idea of the course sounds like an initial good idea but i feel the benefit of this would be slim and agree with some of the points that was made in the last post.
Also you said clubs would need to send a representative its hard enough getting someone to do the line sometimes let alone telling 1 person they going on a course this would then let them believe that they are the clubs lino permanently and no-one would ever want that surely.....
If you went down the route of one goes on a course then tells the rest of the team how to do it, so much would be lost in translation from this that things would be back to how it was anyway, plus how interested is the rest of your club going to be instead of having training, having training from a team-mate on how to lino.....
The rules of the game i feel are simple and the linos should know what they are doing, if not how have you got to be involved in football without understanding these rules??? I also agree that the referee does have the right to over-rule the lino and even change if need be...
I also agree with the league that as a club i would have no objection and neither would my team of paying a bit extra each week so that we had an official, but i think it boils down to some of us get so passionate about the game that it dont even matter if there was a league official on the side-line if you think your on-side you would still have a moan at him anyway!!! Take it as no-one is perfect and there must of been something there for someone to even think of raising the flag in the first place...
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LeagueSecretary
Moderator
Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 121
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| #10 |
Thanks for all the comments that have been coming in on this issue and I would like to make a couple of observations. I think that what has been stated that there are grey areas and even the Pro’s get it wrong!! Is valid and I think the word “Cheat” or “Cheating” is being branded a little to easily and I think the words not understanding the rules fully maybe better used . The comments made re the Referee over ruling a linesman are fine and in certain cases our Referee’s do just that but how many times do you complain that a Referee as got a decision wrong!! This would just add extra pressure to the Referee and in that argument you might as well say no linesman at all.. What a farce that would be!! I think you will find that all of our Referee’s give instructions to the Assistants before a game as to what is required, but when Clubs change Assistants halfway through a half, how is that assistant to know what the Referee has asked for? Therefore the Clubs also should take some responsibility to put someone on the line who they are reasonably confident will do a good job, not just the quiet ones they can badger into doing it!! This then comes down to the point of the Course. The people (Not necessarily 1 person a max of 2 poss 3 and not necessarily a Player from each Team) that went on the Course would be expected to do the lines for their Club or else what is the point of them attending a Course in the first place. It is no good complaining to the League or anyone else if Clubs are not going to take a little piece of responsibility yourself and if not it should then be a case of either put up or shut up!! The point also made that the rules in football are very simple and if you do not know the rules why are you involved!! I think this whole issue proves that the rules are not 100% known and therefore needs to be addressed. |
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khufc
Registered: 24/11/08
Posts: 28
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| #11 |
What would stop players paying an extra £1 subs per week then the "poor person" having to run the line would then benefit from having £10 or so in his pocket for doing a job he has been trained to do the same job no one else wanted to do?? Im sure most teams would have someone that would be willing, and to make sure both linesmen get their money both clubs will have to give their linesman money to the referee before the game, he would then pass it on. Any team that doesn't pay before hand will then face a fine from the SSL. |
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Marka35
Registered: 22/10/09
Posts: 2
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| #12 |
For once i am in complete Argeement with Ben - At times I dont think there is any other word to use apart from "Cheating". There are alot of people interested in becoming Referee's at the moment so hopefully the numbers will increase and leagues wont be stuggling to cover games with officails - I have just hanged my boots up as a club secertary after four years (not that i put them on much) during that time I had to request 3 officals for a few games on the return legs against many clubs due the there 12th Man - and the extra officals was at my clubs expense as it was my request - but most of the time there was not enough officails to grant my request, I think the game is so much better with 3 officals - maybe over time leagues will allocate 3 officals to top 2 divisions and when that is up and running the next division and so on, The Club linesman at times do a great job but get a raw deal from some players who shout abuse at them every time they put the flag up, The extra officals make it so much easyier for the man in the middle and more offences are picked up during the game due to the extra powers the officals have over club-lino's. I have seen both sides of the coin as a manager and now as a referee so I really hope 3 officails are allocated to more games even if it means I have to be assit-ref week in week out.
Regards
Mark
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LeagueSecretary
Moderator
Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 121
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| #13 |
Morning Mark We are very proactive in getting Officials on all our games and my personal aim would be to see Officials on all games in our League ( I was born an optimist!). We are looking that we maybe in a position in the early new year to put Officials on our Division 2 games as well and if Clubs do ask for Match Officials we do our up most to supply them. Even down to Kent Cup games. We have just had 6 new Officials complete the Course who have joined our team of Officials. If you fancy Officiating in our League I am sure that our Referee Appointments Secretary Wayne Cooksey would be happy to accommodate you. In the interim we have arranged a lineman course for the 25th November for all our Clubs to attend and hopefully cut down on these problems. Once again many thanks for your comments and I hope that I may see you Officiating in one of our fixtures very soon. Mark  |
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Ash
Registered: 18/02/09
Posts: 40
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| #14 |
Spike Stars,
Have the best linesman & he`s fair!
His names Graham.
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